ladder beams

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Havespannerwilltravel

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Consultant Scaffolding Manager AG&P Philippines
Just seen a scaffold supplier tech guidance.
It shows ladder beams supported by single standard at each end on the beam horns.
Back in the old school days 2 standards were required at each end and this was actually on the training drawing for bridge using beams used at Bircham Newton.
Have things changed?

---------- Post added at 08:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 AM ----------

I will check out TG 20 tomorrow as don't have it with me.
 
I had this argument with a scaffold designer he said it was only one standard because the second one would have alifting force imposed on it when the beam had a load onit.i have always used a pair and will contine to do so ,never mind what some fella who has never touched a spanner in his life says!!
 
Tg20:13 shows only one standard now unless the load is over 22.0kN

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

It even shows only one standard on the picture on the front of the new TG20:30 user guide
 
We got told the same earlier this yeah when bridging over a stream down skipton, that one standard was the best way now apparently coz off the reasons damo has just stated
 
Been on sites where you cant use horns.i cant see the problem it cant be much different to hanging a dropper of a butt .its still using a short length of tube.if they are not suitable for use surely beams would be made with no horns.
 
i have never seen the problem with using the horns of a ladder beam ,surely the standard forms another vertical on the horn and your standards would normally have checking ledgers.
 
if a second pair of standards causes lift a check transom over the top of the beam would eliminate the issue.you could also pull it back down.
it amazes me how after Decades of ladder beams being used in a certain way we now discover through the brilliance of NASC that we were all wrong.
I CANT WAIT TILL THEY SUDDENLY REALISE THAT PYTHAGORUS GOT HIS THEORY WRONG,AND THE WHOLE WORLD OF GEOMETRIC MATHEMATICS IS ARSE FOR TIT;)
 
What On Earth Next, We Have Been Told For Years The Correct Way To Use Beams On Tube Standards, And On System Be It Kwikstage Or Whatever, Now The Nasc Has Thrown Everything Out The Window And We Have To Learn It All Again. What A Crock Of Crap.
 
Hi every one

I don't mean to be funny about this,but why is it now alot of scaffolders think they are
engineers,it is great that the game has some what progressed,but I feel that the natural
ability of experience,being able to picture a job first in your head,and gut feeling is been
taken away and is replaced by,kill a noots,too much detail on drawings,way too much materials in these jobs,maybe I am a bit old school after 28 years in the game,but for me
it is taking away a degree of freedom,how times have changed.
 
More to the point Jim why do a lot of engineers who have never lifted a tube in their life now think they are scaffolders , whilst things work with calculations the ability to overcome a problem on site on the spot is very hard to beat,
how many times have we seen it a standard needs to come out of a scaffold so we throw in a beam or we spur it up no dramas no problems job done.
 
Not impressed with this one standard guidance at all , surely if a second standard is causing lift then the beam is sagging. Go for two standards if possible even after all the calcs it just looks better.
 
What about the safe guard of a vehicle or forklift hitting scaffold, surely two legs better than one
 
I put up a twenty ft ally ladderbeam on a job that was four foot short over a single story roof....jointed both horns,spliced and sent a thirteen ft tube through the eight foot tower supporting it....itself being spurred out five foot the other end to catch the back.....roof tiles off....fully loaded out and roof on.....no plan bracing but aberdeened either end and strapped off the chord in the middle with trannies on clips on top


Point being is I get that some jobs need calcs but I and my fellow street scaffs can show you hundreds of thousands of jobs that dont conform but they fookin work and will continue too...

nothing to fear but fear itself....tell nasc and those cash cow training centres to lick my sweaty gooch :sick:
 
To prove the scaffs point of view on this one the engineer should put his finger under the sole board of the second standard while a ton or so is loaded onto the beams.i think he my have to recalculate once his hand is better.
 
I agree with both phil & joe -but unfortunately the nasc has brainwashed everone incl the hse that they know best & to a certain point (with all the money they spend producing both tg & sg guidance notes via desighn engineers) but for most oldschool scaffs who not only have faith in the own ability but knowledge of their trade gained over decades find it ironic that practices that where even handed down to us are now deemed unfit & normally by someone who has had a 2day scaff inspectors qualification- although i often rely on a designer on some of the more complicated shore or temp roof works more often then not they are formed from a meeting between us for me to tell him how i want to build it of a sketch or photo of a finished job if i havent had time to wait for the drwg to be produced. Theres a vast difference between a structual engineer and a scaffold desighn engineer as i found out last week when a client gave me a set of drwgs for a floor retention scaffold produced by their inhouse guy which i promptly fcuked off in favour of one of our own purely down to the guys product knowledge who had to conceed his didnt have enough information on & took ours & redrew his to suit the buildings parameters,this was only picked up due to my experiance -if however the original drawings were to be followed the structure had a proberbility of failure which as well as ruining my day,reputation and my PLl would prob av killed someone.....this engineer was only mid 20sjust got his degree & although had the letters after his name still has a lot to learn......and thats my point although long winded in getting there newschool scaffs along with the nasc favour qualifications over experiance & in another 10 years time us oldies will be out of the game & leaving it to a bunch of inexperianced pupps unable to tie their shoe laces with out a method statement & drawing
 
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Ive been many a job where the engineer has drawn it after its been erected. A good working relationship betwen scaffold firm and designer.
 
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